Williams: I've been part of Ballroom for 27 years and I've been throwing balls for the last 15 years.

Knockdown Center: So you came in first as a dancer?

Williams: No, I was documenting the scene. I've been documenting it since 1997. Filming the mini balls and the major balls. Just been filming it from VHS to DVDs to digital. And when did you first switch from documenting to become a more direct participant? Oh, well, I still document. I'm documenting it to this day. They’re on my Ballroom Throwbacks Channel. I have the largest ballroom digital archive in the world.

That's incredible.

Thank you.

Can you tell me a bit about some of those earliest memories of discovering it and exploring that world?

It was a place of magic, it was an underground community at that time; a safe space for black and brown people and a queer space. It’s actually been around since the early 1920s. But it really hit mainstream in the late ‘80s and it's just grown and grown since then. There's so many creative, talented people that it's influenced in the mainstream for decades.

What was it like going to your first ball as a 19 year old?

(laughs) Very strange, very different, but very captivating at the same time.

Did you have an understanding of what it was?

Not at all. I had to learn it from people and I pretty much learned quickly from the right people at that time. People like Sinia, who's actually my co-host, she was someone that I learned the ropes of ballroom from and how the hierarchy and everything in it.

Can you tell me about some early performances that stood out to you?

I would say Sinia, and Ashley of course, I would say Whitney and Brian, Octavia, Danielle, those are the people from then that really stood out to me. Just how unique they were, how they each brought their category in their own way. They all were trendsetters in the categories. And then like, you know, you fast forward today, I don't know if you've heard of Leiomy before. She's like a worldwide mainstream voguer.

They brought vogue to the mainstream. You know, we have so many people now... like, Beyoncé's whole Renaissance tour was based on Ballroom. And the influence that it had, just the cultural period that she incorporated all in, and even included a lot of Ballroom voguers and dancers and creatives in her tour just to pay homage to us.

What was it like seeing one of the most significant pop stars of our generation honoring Ballroom like that?

It's amazing and also kind of nostalgic. I speak to a lot of older people that started it before and to me, you get the best view of it because they never thought it would be like this today. They never thought it would be mainstream. They never thought it would be something that people would actually admit that they're part of. They never thought that it would be something that would be this big. So talking to them, and some of them actually get really emotional because there was a time where this was hidden and it was underground and they never thought it would get to where it is now.

I'm curious about that too. A lot of underground subcultures, when they become more exposed to the mainstream, there's a pushback from some of the most central members because they say it’s selling out or diluting.

A lot of people do feel that - that it has lost some of its magic. And a lot of people that feel like it’s added to its magic. It really depends on the person and what it is. With all things that go mainstream, of course there are downsides to it. But as long as we keep the right people in place to always tell the true story of Ballroom, it’s always going to stay authentic. Of course people are going to feel a way at times. There have been a lot of people that have entered Ballroom and stolen from it and they never gave the proper people credit. But I think that we're in a much better place now of controlling our own record.

Why do you think that is?

Just the fact that we have so many people, just that we have more access to media and social media and actually speaking to the sources that created so many things within Ballroom. So it's different than before, where people would just come in and steal ideas and you could never get credit. People have a voice and actually talk about this.

You started attending balls in 1997 and remind me what year you started organizing them?

2009.

What made you start?

Always watching Ballroom, you get a good view of what works and what doesn't work. So as I grew up, I loved the categories and wanted to showcase certain categories to certain people. Each event that I throw, from the beginning, I always try to outdo the prior event.

What are some categories that are some of your mainstays or some of the early ones that inspired you?

Oh, definitely the face categories by far. Definitely, the performance and vogue categories and the runway categories. I think they're the most creative, the most audacious, you know, I think they're the most beautiful categories, like people that are not in the scene come to watch these categories because they find them online and they're so amazed at how people can create things that they never even thought of. So definitely those categories.

And when you say face, you mean makeup?

(laughs) No, it's pretty much like who looks the best out of the people.

I see, I see. And can you tell me a bit about the evolution of your balls over the last 15 years?

It started out basically with a few hundred people coming to now a couple of thousand people each year. I always outdo the best. I get the best corporate sponsors. I try to do the biggest grand prizes just to get everybody from everywhere, people from around the world that travel to my events. That's always exciting to me, to be honest.

Is there a certain essential artistic spirit or something that you feel is your mark, something that you look for in performers?

I think my mark is that I'm able to get people from yesteryear and the present to come out and represent. That's what I honestly think.

And I think a lot of people appreciate that because there are people that only come to my balls because they know they're going to get quality and they're going to get a show. And then like the new kids, they're able to come out and they really perform because they know there's certain people, it's an honor for them to come and like certain people that they never thought they would be able to meet they'll be able to meet and actually see them perform in person. So I think I'm able to blend in the two perfectly, I think that's the gift I have for them.

Yeah, that must be really profound, especially for the elders to see a continuation of this expression and this mode as it grows and develops.

Right.

Which venues were you working in at the beginning?

(laughs) Originally from the Bronx. I did an event in Brooklyn, and then I moved to Knockdown Center in 2017, and I've pretty much been there since.

And I heard that the first one was happening at the same time as a Julius Eastman concert?

Yes.

How was that?

(laughs) It was different, but it worked out beautifully. The funny part was that for that concert, a lot of people came and then they came to the ball, and a lot of people were amazed because they didn't even know about Ballroom.

So having the mix of the two, you know a lot of people come, there have been people that have accidentally come to a ball and they've gotten hooked. They actually know nothing about it and they started doing research and then they started coming after that. So I always like that aspect of it because, you know, art is art and if you're a creative person and like entertainment, you're definitely going to come and get entertainment at a ball.

So for this one, is there anything particular you've got planned that you'd like to highlight in advance?

It’s the first tag team face, one male, one female, with a $25,000 prize. And there's a Sex Siren category, basically, who's the sexiest for $20,000. So there are a lot of people who anticipate watching that and walking that category.